Borderlands: Surrey/Kent vs. Croydon/Bromley

One question I've never quite been able to answer definitively is whether Croydon is in South East or South West London. It's just South, like the old South Central rail franchise. Perhaps postcodes will give me a clue? Some parts of South Norwood have SE postcodes, while parts of Norbury have SW postcodes. The CR postcode also covers Mitcham, which is in Merton, and Caterham and Warlingham, which are outside of London.

Sign showing the boundary of London and Surrey in Caterham on the Hill

According to the NHS, Croydon is part of South West London, being in South West London ICB. Our waste management contract is part of the South London Waste Partnership. 

To the east of Croydon is the historic boundary between Surrey and Kent. This would suggest that we're in South West London. This site has an interactive map showing the former boundary.

20mph speed limit is standard for most roads in Croydon

You're probably wondering why this matters. Sometimes it's necessary to know where to find the borough listed. But I'm strangely interested in the invisible, arbitrary boundaries that divide up places and decide what rules we have to live by, and what we get access to and what we don't. It affects the speed limits on the roads, the healthcare and education options you have, what you pay for transport, and certain amenities and services. 

There are several variations between the existing borough boundaries and the old Surrey-Kent border. There are places you can walk along the boundary, if you so wish. To the south, the boundary seems to have stayed the same, with Shirley, Shrublands and New Addington on the Croydon side and West Wickham and Coney Hall on the Bromley side.

Addington Vale, New Addington, December 2024

Starting in the south, New Addington has many areas of open grassland and woodland. From Castle Hill Ruffs and Rowdown Woods, you can see the below view across open fields, which are in the borough of Bromley, but it feels pretty rural.

View from Castle Hill Ruffs, New Addington, December 2024

It's surprisingly high up, with views all the way into the Docklands area of London. This view has changed a lot in my lifetime - I don't remember it before the iconic pyramid-topped 1 Canada Square, but I remember it before all the other buildings. While they used to be all office buildings, it's now dominated by residential apartment blocks - much like Croydon. But that's a topic for another blog post. 

The Docklands area of London, viewed from New Addington

At the northern edge of New Addington roars Kent Gate Way, a busy dual carriageway. There's a footpath across fields from here to the picturesque 15th century St John's Church at Coney Hall, situated on a hill with horses grazing beneath, if you fancy a detour further into Bromley. Take care if the rapeseed is flowering though, around April - it can cause irritation to your eyes and nose.

View from St John's Church, West Wickham, April 2021

A horse at the edge of the churchyard, St John's, West Wickham, April 2021

Moving northwards, be careful to make it across Kent Gate Way in one piece, and you'll be rewarded by Spring Park and Threehalfpenny Wood.

Spring Park pond, 2021

Spring Park is in Bromley but belongs to the City of London. It contains a pretty pond along with extensive grasslands.

Common Darter dragonfly, Spring Park, July 2024

Above it are woods, with a stream running downhill and several small ponds (for anyone who's new here, I'm a big fan of ponds).

Southern Hawker dragonfly laying eggs, Threehalfpenny Wood, July 2024

If you walk through the woods up the hill you'll reach Shirley Heath, which is a mixture of grasslands, heathland and woodlands. Sadly the heathland is a little sparse but it's still full of colour and butterflies in the summer.

Small Copper butterfly, Shirley Heath, July 2024

There are a lot of green spaces in Shirley - confusingly, one is called Spring Park Wood, but Spring Park used to cover a much larger area so only remnants exist today. Millers Pond is another lovely little park in Shirley, with a surprising amount of bird life.

Canada geese with goslings, Millers Pond

Bethlem Hospital Museum of the Mind, July 2022

The Bethlem Royal Hospital is a world-famous (some might say notorious) psychiatric hospital located in the Monks Orchard area, just north of Shirley. Originally located in inner London, it moved in 1930 to Monks Orchard, as it had outgrown its home in Lambeth (now the Imperial War Museum). The site used to be split between Croydon and Bromley but is now in Bromley. The free Museum of the Mind is open several days a week and includes exhibitions on mental health treatment history and artwork created by patients.

Grounds of the Bethlem Hospital, July 2022

There are extensive grounds, which are open to the public, however the entrance which was on Wickham Road has been closed so you have to use the main entrance on Monks Orchard Road.

Mute swan chasing Canada geese, South Norwood Country Park, Jan 2021

A little further to the north west is South Norwood Country Park, a former sewage farm now considered the best birding site in Croydon. The Surrey-Kent boundary originally went straight through South Norwood Country Park, so that is now in the borough of Croydon, while the neighbouring Beckenham Cemetery and Crematorium is in Bromley. The lake provides many sheltered spots for less common water birds, including water rails, kingfishers, little egrets, teal, snipe, and sometimes other avian visitors.

Tufted duck with ducklings, South Norwood Country Park, July 2024

Breeding birds you might see with young in the spring and summer include tufted ducks, mallards, swans and geese. There is also a wetland area and a lot of scrub which supports many species.

One of the ornamental ponds at Beckenham Crematorium, July 2023

The Chaffinch Brook runs in a concrete channel across the north west edge of the park, and the Beckenham Cemetery and Crematorium is located on the opposite side, in the borough of Bromley.

Beckenham Crematorium and Gardens of Remembrance, April 2022

Cemeteries are not everyone's idea of a good day out, but it's an especially pretty one, with landscaped memorial gardens and water features. It's home to green and great spotted woodpeckers, nuthatches, foxes, and occasionally pheasants.

Green woodpecker, Beckenham Cemetery, November 2022

The borough boundary now follows a railway line, deviating a fair amount from the original Surrey-Kent boundary. While much of Anerley and Penge used to be in Surrey, it's now firmly in Bromley, including Betts Park, which is home to the only remaining portion of the Croydon Canal.

South Norwood Lake, December 2024

On the Croydon side you'll find South Norwood Lake, a lovely open space with a lake which was once a reservoir for the canal, along with playing fields and woodland. The lake is home to great crested grebes, numerous waterfowl and a variety of gulls. From there, the current boundary goes through some allotments and along some residential roads, before curving to the north east to the top of Crystal Palace hill, where Croydon and Bromley meet Lambeth and Southwark, with Lewisham close by. Most of Crystal Palace Park lay on the Surrey side, with the lower lakes in Kent, but now the entire park is in Bromley. Read more about Crystal Palace Park dinosaurs here.

Crystal Palace Park dinosaur lake

If you want to do some walks in this area, here's some of the many public transport options:

New Addington/Addington Village: Tram: New Addington, Addington Village. Bus: 64, 130. 

Shirley: Bus: 119, 194, 198, SL5

South Norwood Country Park: Tram: Harrington Road (by the cemetery too), Elmers End.

South Norwood Lake: Bus: 433 stops outside, or 468 and walk from Howden Road stop along Howden Road. Also walkable from Norwood Junction (but uphill).

Crystal Palace Park: Train: Crystal Palace or Penge West. Bus: 157

In terms of parking, South Norwood Country Park has a car park accessible from Albert Road. Crystal Palace park has car parks with a small charge (which supports the park). Other sites have on street parking nearby. 

The photo at the start of this blog post is Canada geese returning to South Norwood Lake from over the border in Bromley earlier this month.